Comments on: Jacob’s Well: John 4

By: MRI Webmaster

MRI Webmaster — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 03:56:02 +0000

I think the part I really cue in on is how to help with a caring heart–practically speaking, how do we do it–and how do I begin to take seriously my own need for change and obedience. I also wonder how can we create a church community full of people who treat it as normal and necessary to share their struggles and sins with one another and to receive input/criticism/support from one another. This as opposed to a community in which everyone tries to look as holy and perfect to as many as possible. How does that change happen?

By: ~kevin

~kevin — Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:32:56 +0000

Chastity for life. Tall order, but no taller than telling somebody born without sight that they are blind for life and have to deal with it. I raise the issue of homosexuality being a decision or a born trait. I think there are cases for both, but is either situation a justification for living that lifestyle and expecting God to be OK with it? We are all born with some degree of less than desirable traits, but we live with it, or try to. I’m colorblind, but it’s not marked on my driver’s license that I get to run red lights with no consequences. ARE some people dealt a hand that justifies going against the Bible? Personally, I don’t think so, but I do think there are some hands that are harder to play with. With that in mind, we have to help those people with a caring heart, not condemn them with a an iron fist. But where do we draw the line? Are we helping them in the eyes of God by allowing gay marriage? Or Homosexual Pastors?
I’m excited for the youth retreat I’m going on next month. One of the speakers is from His Way Out Ministries and will be speaking on overcoming that lifestyle and now living a life pleasing to God. I’m interested to hear if he still considers himself a homosexual, but “non-practicing” or if he believes he is completely changed.
Sorry, that was all a bunch of ramble.

By: MRI Webmaster

MRI Webmaster — Wed, 18 Jan 2006 20:58:10 +0000

And, as with the argument Judy raised, those whom I’ve met who do take a “Scripture doesn’t say homosexuality is wrong/the verses that say its wrong don’t apply to me” often make the point that homosexuality does less harm to most than other sins. I.e. they argue that if two consenting adults wish to set up a monogamous, commited homosexual relationship, this is better than adulterous hetero relationships and better than promiscuous homosexual relationships. This has been a difficult argument for me to cope with, not on a theological level, but a practical one. What do you tell a homosexual church member? Chastity for life? Maybe I just feel bad requiring that of others when I know I could probably never do it.

By: Nathan

Nathan — Wed, 18 Jan 2006 20:16:20 +0000

Good point Amy. If we followed the logic that all sin is equal in all respects, the importance of spirtual maturity would be rendered moot. There is a reason that murder seems like a worse sin than leaving a chintzy tip..because murder IS worse. This same reasoning is used when electing/hiring people to positions of leadership. The question is not “are you free from sin,” but instead “how free from sin are you?”

I think this is why it is so difficult to hire an openly gay Pastor to lead a church. Are they in need of the same saving grace as everyone else? Yes. Are they as free from sin as we expect a person in that position to be? Probably not.

By: amy

amy — Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:49:26 +0000

my Christian Worldview teacher a few semesters ago said that there is a difference in sin. he said that all sins are equal in that all sins separate from God, but all sins are not equal based on (this is the part where i will probably butcher the good point he was making) some sins do more damage than others, to us as individuals, to any other people affected, or to society/humanity. God’s law in the old testament even judges some sins as worse than others. You can tell that by the punishment required by law for the sins. Some sins’ penalty is death, some sins deserve less. and yeah, all sin requires a payment of life like it says in Romans, and therefore all sin is equal spiritually. but i can still see how all sins are not equal physically, based on the effect they have. still doesn’t give me the gift of judgement, and doesn’t make any sin more, or less acceptable. but it’s just something to think about i guess.

By: Judy

Judy — Wed, 18 Jan 2006 04:43:03 +0000

Yep, that passage speaks to all of us, for sure. But it describes one who WANTS to do what he or she knows to be God’s will, in spite of failing to do it. Let me play the ‘devil’s advocate’ here just a little. How about when one knows, without a doubt, what God says His will is about something, but basically takes the position, “I don’t care, I’m gonna do (fill in the blank) anyway? Or how about trying to explain it away, as in, “surely God doesn’t mean (fill in the blank)…that can’t possibly apply to MY situation.” ?

By: MRI Webmaster

MRI Webmaster — Wed, 18 Jan 2006 03:32:33 +0000

Also, my entire opinion could likely be explained by my predilection for the following verses: Romans 7:14-25:

14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

By: MRI Webmaster

MRI Webmaster — Wed, 18 Jan 2006 03:18:53 +0000

First, my favorite hell real estate has got the be the fetid pit.

Second, God listens to Bob Dylan.

Third, as we all know, people who serve canned cranberries don’t really love their families. (Just kidding-It took me a while to remember about the cranberry thing, but that was pretty funny).

Lastly (at least for now), just as I find myself dubious about the difference between big and little sins, so I find myself largely unable to differentiate between willful sins and…unwilled sins? Perhaps this is my psychology talking, but It’s my belief that we don’t know ourselves as well as we think, meaning we have neither so much nor so little control over our own behavior as we think (please see earlier discussion on free will and determinism–I’m somewhere in the middle). I can’t think of any sins of mine that weren’t willful, in the sense that they involved, at some point, my taking action, either in thought or deed. And yet I also typically feel that sin has a way of catching me unaware, with its own volition and agenda. Heck, sometimes I act with every good intention only to find what I’ve done in the end is wrong. I guess I’m arguing that no sin is ever totally one or the other, willful or unwilled, especially when we look at how deeply and historically rooted some of the pains and experiences which lead to sin can be.

PS-Amy, I’m glad you don’t have the gift of judgment. Maybe you should create a new comic spiritual gifts inventory including gifts such as backsliding, grumbling, useless theologizing, and acoustic paneling.

By: Judy

Judy — Wed, 18 Jan 2006 01:13:38 +0000

Well, I agree with what everyone has said, pretty much. Except maybe for the bigger question being what Jesus would listen to if He had an Ipod. I don’t consider myself overly judgemental. Some might disagree (“..and what do you think about people who serve canned cranberries?”). But I always wonder if there is ever the potential to err in the opposite direction. I mean, is there a point when not addressing obvious sin (I don’t have any particular obvious sin in mind) makes a group of believers (no particular group) look like hypocrites for supposedly accepting scripture as God’s word, but not living any differently than unbelievers? However, if we do love like Jesus loves, non-believers will definitely notice a difference. And I think it’s nearly impossible to love like that if one’s relationship with Christ is compromised by willful sin. Maybe the key word is willful. So, I guess maybe the love part automatically takes care of the potential poor example part. It could be confusing to onlooking unbelievers….but hopefully there is someone they know who will love them enough to help them figure it out. It definitely takes God working with us, and in us, to love people in our lives who aren’t all that easy to love. And sometimes they aren’t the ones with the obvious ‘big’ sins.

By: ~kevin

~kevin — Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:19:52 +0000

Jesus listens to U2… end of discussion.